Say what you want about the guy.
I must confess.
I dig the dude.

Let’s see…how how about we tackle the rest of Bet’s questions.

What is your theory on Lost?
Seriously, I’m not one who sits and really tries to come up with theories on it.  I just watch and enjoy, but of course I am trying to figure out what the heck is going on the whole time.
That being said, I do like to waste my time reading mindless drivel on the internet sometimes, and I am a big fan of this theory at this point in time.  Very clever, and seems to have good answers for most everything.

What makes 24 better than Lost?
Two words…Jack Bauer.
See last post below.
Next.

What is your predestination theology stance?
Yes.
Yes, we are chosen.  The Bible says so.
Yes, we have to choose.  The Bible says so.
How are they both true?  Not sure.  But I think it’s one of those things we can’t fully understand.  I used to swing way more to the “we choose” side, but I guess being stuck in a family with all these stinking reformers has got me warming up to Calvin.
Another one of those questions that when it really comes down to it, there are great theologians who I respect and admire from over the years that disagree on this one.  I’m just not arrogant enough to think I can be the one to figure it all out.  Close…but not quite.

Do you approve of women as senior pastors in churches? Why or why not?
Geez Bet.  Thanks a lot.
This is actually one that I keep coming back to and struggling with, and let me preface it by saying that I have not studied it nearly enough to make a solid conclusion yet.  The simple answer is no.  But it’s not that simple.  Let me explain.

I definitely came out of a background that is pretty heavy against the women leading thing, both from Calvary Chapel and Knott Avenue Christian.  So I’ve been recovering.  I’ve swung pretty far away from where I used to be as I’ve looked at the cultural context of certain passages as well as the practical realities.  But Lead Pastor is definitely a place I haven’t been able to move past yet.  On the flip side, while I would not currently attend a church with a female lead pastor, I also don’t condemn those who do or the women who are.  While I may not be all for it, I hardly think it is one of those issues that when we get to heaven, God is gonna be really ticked off about because the wrong gender was expanding the kingdom.

I really would like to be OK with it.  In fact, I think it would be beneficial to the Gospel if I could be.  Here’s my biggest hang up, though.  While I get that some of the passages commonly used are cultural, I also see Paul follow them up with a theological argument.  That’s where I get stuck.  The guy says things I would never say today!  And just for clarification, at this point for me it is definitely not an ability issue, rather it’s a role issue.

Also, as a sidenote, here are a couple of interesting posts regarding this theological issue and the newfound excitement in the Christian community for Sarah Palin.  Go check those out for some thought provoking reading.

So there you have it.  I stirred the pot a little and hopefully the backlash doesn’t get too ugly.
It’s definitely something I want to commit more time and study to in the near future.
How about you other Christ followers out there?
Where do you stand on the issue?  How did you get there?
Share if you dare.

While visiting Portland, I was most looking forward to visiting Kari’s church here, Imago Dei.  It may sound familiar to you as the home church of author Donald Miller or the church that birthed the Advent Conspiracy movement.

I love going to different churches to learn, get ideas, be inspired, and of course, worship without any responsibilities on occasion.  Here were some of the things I noticed while there.

Kids Ministry

So, several times I’ve visited churches and kinda reported on my experience here at the blog.  Well, I realized kids ministry isn’t something I ever discussed, because well, it didn’t affect me then.  Times have changed.  And as a parent, I can tell you that Imago Dei’s children’s ministry kicked butt!!

First of all, it’s important to notw that Imago Dei sets up and tears down at a high school every week.  Portable church.  Not sure that I miss that.  So we went down the stairs where there was a very clear sign for the nursery – 0-24 months.

As soon as we got down there there was a check in area where they got our name and his.  He received a name tag with a bar cose that was scanned and we received a corresponding name tag with a number for him if we were needed during service.  They had some really cool blue dividers that clearly and nicely split up the children in several different age groups.

As a parent I felt really good and really safe leaving my kid down there.  And added bonus when we went to pick him up.  We were heading in to go grab him, and we were stopped as were were heading in the area by a gentleman to see our nametag with bar code before going in there.  Then as we were leaving both tags were checked and returned.  Way to go Imago Dei on taking care of families!

The Experience

So we arrived near the high school a few minutes late.  Around 10:35 for a 10:30 service.  Definite issue for them is parking.  And we drove around for quite a while looking.  We ended up parking on a street quite a walk away from the school.  But there were lots of people driving around looking for a space.  Again, in a place like we are where we have parking issues, a great reminder.  Whatever it is that’s drawing them there, if it’s good enough, people are willing to walk and be inconvenienced to go there.

The high school is an old brick building with a way cool vibe.  No matter where you meet it’s the little thins that make a difference in welcoming guests.  So while this was a little thing, I was impressed and couldn’t help but snap a picture in the men’s restroom.

They set up a changing table in the middle of a high school restroom.  What can I say.  I thought that was kinda cool.  And thoughtful.

They also had some nice setups to share about ministries at the church:

We walked into the worship space at the beginning of the message, being a bit late, so we stuck around for the beginning of the next service to see what we missed.  the vibe of their auditorium is very cool.  They are in a series being taught by one of their elders who is a seminary professor on the reliability of scripture.  The content was really good, but a bit dry at the same time.  Best part of the message was when he brought it home with some application at the end.

We head on into worship as a time of response.  They also had communion tables in front and at the back of the room.  I understand they have several different worship leaders and teams that rotate.  The worship time was really good.  Kinda what I would expect to contextualize in a city like Portland, if that makes any sense.  A little more mellow rock vibe kinda thang.  As I worshipped I couldn’t help but feel some tears welling up.  not sure if the Spirit was just moving in there or it’s just kinda where I’m at right now.  Probably some of both.

Some Final Learnings/Observations

• Like I said earlier, people are willing to walk and go out of their way if it’s worth it to them, whether that’s for the experience or the community aspect.
• Communion was available during the response time.  I had noticed the tables, and as a guest I was listening to see if it was just go ahead during worship.  To me, it wasn’t very clear, but luckily I was able to ask Kari.  Good reminder as to how important it is to let people know about this each week, even if I sound like a broken record.  Guests need to know what to do.  Even having it in the bulletin would have helped.
• Lots of people responding and receiveing communion during worship regardless.  Gotta figure out how we can help people to respond more in this way at CLC.
• They had one table for communion at the back that provided Alergen free crackers.  Gluten free, etc.  Thought about a friend at CLC who can’t have gluten.  What a great idea.  This had never occurred to me in regard to communion before.  Might wanna think about making that available.  They also had your choice of juice or wine which I thought was pretty cool, but somehow I have a feeling some people at CLC wouldn’t go for that one.
• Wrote a lot about it above, but putting guest parents at ease goes a long way.  I wasn’t concerned about it, and still appreciated the effort.  I can only imagine what that is like for the parent who is unsure about church in the first place.

I’m sure there was more, but this post is long enough already.  Overall I had a great time visiting Imago Dei.  Great church, and being able to meet several people from Kari’s Home Community Group, seems like great people, too.  I love being a guest and remembering what it’s like to be on the other side.

But I also can’t wait to get back and worship with my faith community next Sunday!

So here is what the question that his talk really left me pondering.  It ended with the idea that to be an organization that reaches the creative class, determine the barriers that are keeping them from being with you and tear them down.  So how do we practically do that?

For Amy who commented on the first post, what were some of those barriers that were removed that brought that change of culture?
What does that mean for a new church plant in an artsy area such as the church Earl is starting in Berkeley?  How do you create that DNA?
Or more important for me to think about, how do you identify and actually remove those barriers in a church with lots of history like CLC, where I live?

It seems to me that many of those barriers are removed by changing the attitudes and perspectives of the current faith community.
Is it more about attitudes and values, or is it about actual practices or events?  Or is it some of both?

I’d love to hear from those in ministry as well as those who attend a church as well as those who have nothing to do with church.  What has worked for you?  What do you think?  What would make you as a creative want to be a part of a faith community?

Your turn.

One of the things the Earl mentioned that stuck out to me was their desire to contribute to the community they are a part of.  There’s a concern I have heard from some artists regarding the church.  The general issue is that we tend to fail at celebrating art for the sake of beauty and only really celebrate art to the degree that it illustrates the points that we want to make in our services.

It is an easy trap to fall into, and one that I definitely am guilty of.  As I would get so wrapped up in planning out Sundays experience, artist became simply a means to communicate our message that Sunday.  This is very valuable, but if it the only focus I think this subtly says to artists that their personal expression is valid only as long as it is used for our purposes. 

Often the church tries to figure out how we can reach "creatives" rather than inviting creatives onboard to build, create, lead, and challenge the way we think.  When I first started in ministry, I thought much more like a creative type myself.  But then I learned in the church world how things are "supposed" to be done and began focusing so much more on the programs rather than my love of art and beauty.  Now I consistently need to unlearn some of the things that have been reinforced in me in order to be the person that God really wants me to be and reach the communities he’s equipped me to reach.

So how do we as a church become a place for creatives, allowing them to feel like valued contributing members without it having to be in the confines of how we want to use it?  When I was at Recreate, one of the presenters talked about hosting a film festival for our community.  Part of me, most of me, loves that idea.  But another part of me has had trouble wrapping my head around the usefulness.  Where is the redemptive value?  Are we sharing the greater story with them somehow?  Are we inviting them to church to fill the seats the next Sunday?  Perhaps it should be enough that we value just encouraging and celebrating creativity, and there is no other hidden agenda or motives.  Now that gets me more excited.  Just not sure if that one will sell to a board or your average church leadership. 

So my questions for you today, what do you think…
Does the church value art in and of itself?
What can we do to value art and artists beyond our own agendas?
How have you (or have you) seen this done effectively?

Your turn.

In order to make it feel a little more useful, they throw in a couple of ministry related seminars as well.  I was able to attend two today.  First one, not so impressed.  Second one, different story.  I was kinda stoked to see that Earl Creps was doing several of the breakouts.  I’ve always enjoyed Earls insights in blog posts as well as his visit to CLC, and I was looking forward to hearing what he had to say in this particular gathering.  It didn’t disappoint.  (And Earl, I’m not just saying that cause I know your Google hunter thing will flag this and you will read this blog.  I mean it!  )

The session was on "Reaching Cultural Creatives."  It really got some ideas and thoughts bouncing around in my dome.  So, allow me to unpack my notes here, and ask you a few questions over the next three days on your thoughts.  This is conversation time, so don’t be shy!

Most of his thoughts and material were birthed from a book called Cities and the Creative Class by Richard Florida, an urban planter.  A book I think I’m gonna have to read now.  Here were the main ideas about creatives and how it applied to the church.

Most of America can be split into three categories of the labor pool:

1. Creative Class – approx. 39 million.  These are the people who are creating the future we will all live.  This is the guy who will create the "box" that comes after the iPod.  Whether they come to know Christ or not, these are the people who will be creating the culture.
2. Engineering Sector – approx. 34 millions.  These are the people who will build the box that the creative creates.
3. Service sector workers – approx. 56 million.  This is the majority of the labor force.  These are the people who will then service that box that comes after the iPod.

Different communities have different population densities of these classes if you will.
Naturally, there are things that attract creatives to the places that they gather in highest numbers.
Primarily, these people are looking for:

• Talent – they are talented and want to be around other talented people like them.
• Technology – how do things get done?  Desire for convenience.
• Tolerance – let me do what I want as long as no one else is being hurt.

As far as places to go, our churches included, they are looking for:

• Quality of an experience.
• First level of your truth is the level of your tolerance.
• Want to be somewhere with other creatives.
• Want to have the opportunity to validate who they are and what their contribution is.

Finally, here are the traits to an "event" that would attract the creative:

• Casual – I can come however I want to.
• Convenient
• Inclusive
• Participatory
• Can develop a support network very quickly – may be able to attend next in four meetings or something, so need to connect quickly.
• Prefer coffee shops over sports stadiums – and usually the locally owned, free trade. "down with the man" coffee shop, not Starbucks.

So ultimately, to reach the cultural creative, it is not about building something new, better, and different.  Figure out the barriers to them being with you and tear those barriers down.

A little dry without the delivery, but you get the idea.  I found myself nodding a lot as Earl spoke and really resonating with the feelings and worldview of the "cultural creative."

So here’s my question for today (assuming you’ve managed to carve out the time to read this long).  It is actually quite elementary and almost backs up to before the talk. 

I wonder, does the church, as a whole, really see a high value in reaching this creative class?
What are the benefits to it?
Obviously, if the church wants to be creating culture, I think it is crucial.  And we give a lot of lip service to believing that.  But as I read through that stuff, our natural Christian sub-culture of today probably doesn’t really jive with the desires of the typical creative.  There are lots of barriers to break down.
Does the Church at large really buy into this idea of reaching this group?
Or, more importantly, how many of our churches are willing to pay the cost it will take and make the changes that will be needed to tear down those barriers?

What do you think?  What are the reasons to even go there?  Are we there?  How are you seeing it happen?  Or not happen?

Your turn…go!

This post is a contribution to Water Cooler Wednesday.  Stop on by and contribute yourself!

In the meantime, though, I saw this video over at the Life Church blog.  What a phenomenal idea!  You gotta check this out:

I was talking with Ed about it, and who knows, we may or may not be a part.  A video message would definitely be a stretch for us.  But we’re thinkin about it.  Either way, the thing I love about this idea is the incredible picture of unity of the church and the ability that technology gives us to do that like never before.  Imagine what the church of Jesus Christ could really accomplish if we all worked together for the good of our world.

And I don’t just mean 7 or 8 mega churches.  I mean the hundreds and hundreds of small faith communities all across the country that together could do enormous things for the Kingdom.
What do you think?

And as long as we’re talking about it, how about a video a came across a long time ago.  For those who are privy to the Christian subculture, I’ve had a good time with my own imitations of Joel Osteen in the past.  But Ed Young Jr. does a great one.  At least some of those church "superpowers" can get along and have fun together!

Thought it was over at 4:55, didn’t ya?

I don’t think we’ll be singing that anytime soon.
Although I wouldn’t mind worshipping with them sometime.
They be havin fun, eh?

Now, almost three years later, I am here at CLC and Vintage Faith has been meeting for the past year or so almost right across the street from us at First Presbyterian Church, two churches, one vision.  I’ve been wanting to get back over to visit now that we’re neighbors, and I was finally able to tonight.  I love visiting other churches, being able to kick back and worship, and learning from what I am able to take in when I’m there, the good and the bad.

I chose a very significant and different week to visit Vintage Faith.  They were in between series, giving a vision update and making some rather major announcements.  More on that later.

When I arrived the parking lot was way packed.  So after driving through it, I had to exit and park a block or two away.  One of the concerns at CLC has been our parking situation as well, but it was interesting to see how many people were walking from a bit of a distance to get there.  I was hoping to visit sort of covertly, but I knew the greeter at the front door, and immediately saw a friend from CLC when I got inside.

Some of the things I enjoyed:

• Very cool vibe inside.  Large ornate silver cross up front and center with fabric and some lighting.
    I found it interesting that I could only see six lighting fixtures that they were using.  They used them well, though.
• The sound was nice and thick.  It was loud (as I prefer it…nevermind, that’s a whole different post) and full.  It really seemed to envelop and immerse you in the worship time.
• It was hard to spot Josh Fox off to the right as he welcomed people and started worship.  At first this bothered me a little bit, but at the same time I thought it was kind of cool to have very little focus on the team and have the central focal point up front as the cross.  Whether they have it like that every week, I don’t know.
• As Dan Kimball did the first part of the message, it was very conversational.  There was a part of his speaking where he had lots of people give input as to what it tangibly meant to have life more abundant.  It’s bothered me at times that we get together at church and listen to one person teach while we stare at the back of peoples heads.  This approach was kinda nice for a change.  More community focused I guess.
• Cool response to the message.  I’ll show that in a sec.

The big announcement: Vintage Faith and First Pres. are merging to become one church.  It will be called Vintage Faith and they will become Presbyterian.  First Dan shared about the history of Vintage, then Lee Perky shared the history of First Pres. and the joining of the two, and then Josh Fox addressed some details as to what it would look like, wrapped up by Kristin, who oversees Community groups and Hospitality, explaining the response and communion.

As a visual representation of the joining of the churches, people went forward to several stations at all three services where artists traces outlines of their faces as a symbol of the two churches becoming one family.

So a few things the service got me thinking of:

• Vintage Faith is doing some great stuff in the city of Santa Cruz.  It is an honor to get to do ministry nearby.  We’re all on the same team, and I’m excited to see an impact being made.
• One of the things Dan shared was some research they did when they started Vintage Faith.  Based on what they found, 90% of Santa Cruz does not attend church.  That is a HUGE mission field.  There is plenty of work to be done.  Another Pastor I met with several months ago said the most accurate estimate he know of was actually 93%.
• CLC is not Vintage Faith and never will be.  And it shouldn’t be.  I think we could learn a lot from what they are doing.  They have clearly been successful in reaching a segment of this community and have to a certain degree "broken the missional code" of Santa Cruz.  But we need to so that by being true to who we are at the same time.  However, don’t hear me wrong.  I still think that means some serious examination and changes for us, but that will be addressed in our current series as we share where we are headed as a church.

All in all, it was a fun night and a nice opportunity to get out and actually get to learn a lot about our neighbors.  It was fun to worship with another part of the fam.  And it was good to remind me of the need and opportunity in our immediate community and be reminded of the mission that Jesus has laid out for us.

There’s a pretty big issue in a number of churches today.  Ive seen it.  I’ve experienced it.  I continue to see others experience it.  It’s called burnout.

Why do I bring this up?  Well, some of you may be familiar with a fellow blogger and author, Anne Jackson.  I recently learned that she is in the process of writing a book titled Mad Church Disease.  And she needs your help!!  Here’s a little bit about her and about the book:

Anne Jackson is a twenty-seven year old writer who lives in the Dallas area with her husband, Chris. Chris and Anne both are on staff at Lake Pointe Church in Rockwall, Texas. You may have read some of her writings in Relevant Magazine including one of the most discussed articles on their site: Dirty Girls: The New Porn Addicts.

Mad Church Disease is a book which will discuss the epidemic of ministry burnout in today’s contemporary church.  Currently, anonymous surveys are being conducted at MadChurchDisease.com for those who are on church staff, those who are family of church staff, and those who are volunteers.

By analyzing these surveys, as well as conducting interviews with pastors, families, and volunteers world-wide, Anne hopes to bring this touchy subject to light using real-life stories of not only tragedy, but redemption and healing for those who have been affected by this disease.

So that is where you come into play.  Apparently there has been little to no research done on the effects of burnout do to ministry among staff and/or volunteers.  So Anne will be  conducting anonymous surveys over the next month to learn more.  She is hoping to get at least 5000 responses in an effort to get the best cross section possible.

So please take a few minutes of your time, check out the survey and help her out!  I too am excited to hear the results of these surveys and am looking forward to the info that will be in this book.

And the last thing you can do to help.  Send other people over!  Send e-mails to your contacts asking them to check it out.  Blogger?  Post it.  Add a graphic to your sidebar.  You can get them here.

So I’m gonna go now and take a survey to help out.  Anyone else?